Why vote?

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> I consider trump the accomplished con-man. A rainmaker. He went where people sought an answer and promised them that he was the answer. he would make it rain money from the heavens. And when it didn't happen like any accomplished con-man he blamed someone else who thwarted his grand scheme. Someday people will wake up and realize he never had a plan other than making himself richer.

You could say the complete same thing about Clinton or Sanders

> he had no clue about how to handle the Southern border

so clueless that illegal border crossing has fell over 89% over the time the wall has been built?

 

Nailkaiser

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> I consider trump the accomplished con-man. A rainmaker. He went where people sought an answer and promised them that he was the answer. he would make it rain money from the heavens. And when it didn't happen like any accomplished con-man he blamed someone else who thwarted his grand scheme. Someday people will wake up and realize he never had a plan other than making himself richer.
Bingo, finally someone who sees Trump as nothing but a contrarian who played the right wingers in their own game.
 

MacCloud

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@ humon You get your facts from a utube who has no fact checker? Well that makes sense.

General kathy you do realize that almost none of the wall has been built? What was built was built in the last six months. So how that helped lower the illegal entry is a trumpian fantasy. The facts show the rate was lowest before he tried to close the border. They rose when he cut off aide to central America. So like everything else trumpian, it is half truths at best and lies for the biggest part.
 

AlexFischer

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Yes, the people in the cave would certainly point out that the person from outside has no fact checker.
*Citation Needed*

Additionally, things that "The Internet" also says are true: The Earth is Flat, Vaccines Cause Autism, Crowdstrike is in Ukraine. Just because something is on the internet does not make it magically devoid of bias and agenda.
 
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MacCloud

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Well the best lie is a half truth. Like saying trump deserves praise for his handling of this crisis. How HIS plan is working so well. When it was never his plan at all. His plan was to send people back to work, his plan said that the cure could not be worse than the problem and we needed to get back to work. His plan was to fill the churches for Easter. It would be a beautiful thing, a special day.

So when you praise an idiot who has been dragged into reality by some professional people who do know what they are talking about it is pretty hard for me to simply accept your false facts.

So you go ahead and believe trumpian news. As for me, I will believe only the truth and call a liar a liar.
 

humon

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*Citation Needed*
Are you asking me to cite Plato, or are you just being cheeky :) It's April 1st after all...

The internet is a mixed bag, crazy stuff and true stuff all mixed together. The same could be said of mainstream information sources. There have been some pretty egregious examples in the past years of fake news stories aired on the mainstream. There was the Covington case, where the reporting was the complete opposite of what actually happened. There was that story where ABC showed footage from a gun show, trying to claim it was Turkey slaughtering Kurds. There was the reporting on kids in cages at the US-Mexico border, where they used images from the Obama era to smear Trump. Just recently, they tried to say it was Trump's fault that some dummies in Arizona drank fish tank cleaner. British news is even worse, where they actively protect pedophiles. I've seen so many examples of this institutional lying that it's turned me off completely from the mainstream. But it's difficult to explain to anyone who has not unplugged, so that's why I brought up Plato's cave.

For the record, I wasn't praising Trump for his handling of the situation. I was saying Trump is doing no worse than anyone else, so to say that it's all his fault is incorrect, especially when in January and February the official story from the WHO was all Chinese lies. What I'm arguing against is this thing they call TDS, where people say that everything that goes wrong is because of Trump. He's being used as a scapegoat for problems that other people created, and it bothers me when I see people believing those smears.

Getting people back to work is a tough balance that is open to debate. People need to keep distancing to slow the spread of the virus, but at the same time if companies go out of business and people lose their jobs, they starve. So it's a conversation that needs to be had in every country, and there needs to be a plan for how to do it while still minimizing the risk of spread. I don't fault Trump for bringing up the topic, although as Dr. Fauci said, he was being overly optimistic about the date, exaggerating as he often does. He may shoot his mouth off, but he's also surrounded by competent people who will push back when they need to, so the end result is something much more reasonable.
 

MacCloud

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All I am saying as long as your 'news' is nothing but conspiracy theories you have no credibility. You act as if main stream news is all bullshit while you take as gospel some trumpian supporter in front of his computer.

I don't blame trump for everything, he did not make this pandemic, he did not build a wall on our southern border yet, In fact he has done almost nothing. A short list of his accomplishments.

1. He did not solve the problem with North Korea, he just elevated North Korea to full status among other countries by treating him as hid best bud.

2. He did not make the problems between the USA and Iran. he just made an almost stable relationship turn into a shooting war.

3. The southern border is a disaster, that is not his fault. It has been a problem ever since we became an industrialized nation. Thing is we need those migrant workers and the big lie there is they are taking jobs from Americans.

4. Yes we as America have a trade deficit, it was intentional as part of our nations way of supporting other countries economies. This had been going on since 1946 and it was on purpose to help redistribute some of the planet's wealth. In the early '70's the world was growing angry at the USA as we were using well over half of the planets resources. There were threats of an economic war. We agreed to use less. We started sending companies overseas, the tax structure was designed to make this work. I don't think they should have gone as far as they did but this was not a 'mistake'. That was done with a purpose to make the world a more peaceful planet. Someone as greedy as trump doesn't have the ability to even understand that. At the same time not one of his trade deals was more beneficial to the USA than the deal we had before his greatness.

5. He has repeatedly on the news tried to cause racial tension, disrupt harmony among people and use his own prejudices to divide America. This is not something you need to watch anywhere else. Just watch the buffoon on TV and listen to him. He is a racist. He is a vindictive small minded man. He seeks revenge on anyone who does not kiss his ass. Even people who kiss his ass he destroys if they do not bend the knee and kiss his ass. This does not take any media to prove. This is just watching him and what he does on the TV.

6. trump was never a great business man. His daddy gave him millions to bail him out. trump could not even make a casino work?? He used bankruptcy as a personal bail out fund several times. Something he claims proves he is smarter than other real millionaires?? So we have been footing the bill for him long before he went into politics. Speaking of which you comment about how the news media used fake photos to make him look bad?? What about trump using the pictures of the women's rally the day after his inauguration as pictures of his inauguration crowds. His everything is greater, huger, more resplendent is all bullshit. Even his political rallys on our dime are misleading. he can not fill a real stadium so he goes to smaller venues so it looks like he is packing in large numbers. Everything about trump is fake.

7. I could go on, this last stimulus package, he is taking credit for was rammed down his throat. He did not want to give American people money, he had no plan to extend employment benefits, he had almost nothing for hospitals in his request. He wanted money to give to large corporations and let them use it to keep their companies strong. Meaning just like his tax package. The top 10% would get millions and the average American would get less than pennies on the dollar. I got nothing from the tax package, My ladyfriend got nothing. I know a fella working for a major restaruant chain who was there long enough to be vested and he opened a 401K retirement plan. He somehow thinks that was due to trump? Those are the type of things trump seems to get credit for though. A company policy 30 years old that employees can get a matching 401K after being employed a certain period of time is somehow trump's doing??

8. Oh and how about that big plant from China going to be built in the midwest? Hiring thousands of people, high paying tech jobs. The community believed trump. They bought land had water and power lines put in as per the request of the Chinese company. None of it happened. The company never even broke ground for any building. So the community is left holding the bag with a very large bill for preparing for trump's guaranteed bonanza. It is the same everywhere you look. Coal never made a comeback (Thank God for that), Steel never made a comeback, manufacturing never made a comeback (in fact the employment for manufacturing was lagging behind before trumpian deals, one of the few industries that have not benefited at all from the growing economy). So nothing he said he did was actually done, it was all pipe dreams and promises. The economy grew, the rich widened the gap of have and have-nots. Almost all of this is a simple numbers game. Look at wall street and check the numbers. Now if you support trump of course the bad numbers are a lie, trying to make him look bad. Only the good numbers are credible??

So no trump did not cause many of the problems facing America. They have always been with us. What he has done is make them worse and tell people how great of a job he is doing. I don't blame trump for this pandemic, I blame him for bungling that window from January into February where he could have made a difference. I blame him for bungling the preemptive actions that could have flatten the curve. I blame him for mishandling the logistics that could have helped ease the burden in places like New York. I blame him for making the testing kits a low priority because he didn't want people to know how bad the spread was. I don't need to blame trump for anything more or less than what he was responsible for causing.
 

AlexFischer

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Are you asking me to cite Plato, or are you just being cheeky :) It's April 1st after all...
Perhaps I misinterpreted your joke, but I was specifically calling out your apparent assertion that MacCloud is specifically insulated from "the Truth." That only "the Left" is capable of confirmation bias. But here's the thing that your "facts" seem to ignore: Joe Biden is not president, Palosi is not president, Democrates in Congress are not president. Trump is President and the fact that the only defense you can muster being Whataboutism only serves to weaken your stance.
 
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Bingo, finally someone who sees Trump as nothing but a contrarian who played the right wingers in their own game.
That’s not my quote. That came from MacNPC

As far as I’m concerned, APALT (all politicians are like that). Pointing out that Trump manipulates and deals isn’t remarkable when they all do and some more than others

Trump may be a narcissist, but...

Clinton - liar, sociopath
Sanders - authoritarian, career politician
Bloomberg - take all Trump’s flaws and multiply by multiple times into something unworkable, but don’t have any of his good points
Biden - demented molester
Harris - authoritarian NPC
Buttjudge - pathological liar
Etc etc etc

If there were another republican he’d either be a neocon douche like that eyepatch guy or a religious zealot

Mental defectives are the only people who can stand themselves long enough in politics but I’m not gonna pretend they’re not or that there’s a magical, honest politician (wishful thinking says it would have been Ron paul). It’s been this way since warlords. It’s been this way since Machiavelli wrote “The Prince”

Yang might have been the most frank and benevolent of the bunch but that was his biggest flaw. Try getting anything done as an honest and naive person when you’re working with an organization of almost entirely people who, if they were poor or less educated, would be prison material
 

MacCloud

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Look I am not going to argue with you GeneralKathy. Not because I think you are right. Simply because you are to close minded to even hear the truth. I would vote for anyone on that list with a clear conscious over trump. There is nothing in politics in America worse than trump.
 
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Imagine watching mainstream media and thinking it’s the truth

Also, I gave a lot of rationales you could have debated, but all you've said so far as "orange man bad and his policies are tearing the country apart"

how?

And what is "trumpism"? Did he write out a new ideological framework like Marx or Strasser? Does he have a manifesto somewhere I don't know about? (if you say "Art Of The Deal", so fuckin help you, I will burn your house down). That word doesn't have a definition. You can't just make up words or regurgitate someone else's made-up words because they sound sCaRy

I would have debated you, and trolled less, but you haven't made any actual arguments or explained your logic, just mansplained "trumpism" and claimed to be right.

"here are statistics that show negative impacts of democrat policy"

"YEA BUT ORANGE MAN BAD"

You can only state your position over and over again so many times before you have to start backing it up

> nothing in politics worse than trump

TRUMP IS OFFICIALLY WORSE THAN CHILD MOLESTERS
 
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